I love this post. It's happening to me, too. You might enjoy a novel I just read by Lionel Shriver called Should We Stay or Should We Go. It seems to relate. And I'm so happy you've moved to Substack. I was just on Facebook, where I go periodically to get the spam off my page...I think about deleting my FB pages altogether. It's a swamp of fake friend requests, hackings, etc. Anyway, I love your departing photo. Enjoy Substack!
Thanks Joan and yes I’m loving the experience of Substack. It reminds me of my early blogging days on Blogger. Simpler times. Looking forward to interacting with you on this medium.
Love this, helpful. Thanks. I used to kind of hate that Krishnamurti quote, and other pronouncements that “nothing matters“. Mostly because you can’t get there from here just hearing it, it can’t be achieved or worked on, or faked. Kind of just a big useless “I am there, you’re not, too bad“. But now I kind of see it as a neutral-but-lovely unhooking, or letting go, that sort of happens on its own. If I’m not mistaken, you’re writing bares this out.
Another Shiv Classic. I would have to draw the line with the line “I don’t mind what happens”, if my daughter was diagnosed with an incurable condition, like cancer, leukaemia or a brain tumour. I would definitely mind about that. Yes in 100 years time (perhaps less), if she did die before me, and then I died, it’d be like it never happened and nobody would know or care, but it would matter to me now and until I die, I could not not mind about it, no matter what rationalisations I come up with.
That example is a classic one the mind will come up with, especially for those of us who have children. But the reality is no one knows how they will respond to such a circumstance (we think we know). I have repeatedly been surprised by the reality of my responses vs. the expectations. None of this is to say we don’t CARE about the people in our lives. “Not minding” has more to do with the resistance we feel towards the actuality of life. We can be sad and grieve but sadness and grief are not resistance. Resistance is the unwillingness to accept one’s reality
Actually you’re right, I remember a long time ago I lost my job in the RAF and my entire identity was tied up in it, I thought my life was going to end when I was discharged, but I woke up the next day as a civilian and felt absolutely nothing, in fact I felt some relief, so yes how I thought I was going to feel was completely wrong. I just moved on.
Great post. I would suspect that many "modern" people would label your insight as a kind of softcore nihilism.. This can be a rough road when it comes to interacting with other folks and even family at times. One of the terms I have made it a point to not say anymore to anyone is "I don't care", which seems to bother people on a deep emotional level as if I am saying, "I don't care about you or what you think", which is by no means the case. Even J. Krishnamurti's quote "I don't mind what happens" can sour for some people. In my limited experience, I very much mind what happens, just as I mind what happens when playing a game. But in the end, I know it is all still a game that will come to an end, and a new one will soon start. So I personally have no sense of futility. For me, so far, part of the joy of life is to immerse myself completely in the game of life, knowing that it is still just a game being both completely focused and absorbed, and at the same time seeing that it is still only play.
Bob - as I mentioned to Karl, I don’t see “not minding” as not having preferences. Being human we surely all have preferences. The not minding is what factors in when those preferences don’t come to fruition. Do we move through life fighting against it because it didn’t give us what we like? Or do we shrug it off?
Welcome to the club, bro. That's exactly how I experience life. I'm there without really being there, as if I'm at a distance of everything happening, I'm playing my part but I know it's just a show. "an astonishing feeling of neutrality” is a good way to describe it, but as far as I'm concerned the "astonishing" is gone, since I'm totally used to that 'feeling of neutrality', it's not astonishing anymore.
( Regarding the "offside rule" in soccer, it's never the ball that is considered offside, but the player. ;-) )
I lived in Texas for awhile and a friend of mine went to the Willy Nelson 4th of July picnic concert each year. If you live in Texas, you know July and most of the summer is hellish so I asked him why he chooses to go and put himself through the misery of 98 degrees, 98 percent humidity, rain, mud, overflowing porta-potties and drunks. He was obviously into your zone of expansive experiencing and summed it up as: "Well, sometimes you just gotta break your give-a-shitter."
My buddy Bob enjoyed the music and wasn't going to waste his time judging things beyond his control like the weather and the state of enlightenment of his fellow concert-goers. He was open to the pleasure of the moment and comfortable with giving up his illusions of control. Nothing quite matches the subtlety of a Texas guru.
I love this post. It's happening to me, too. You might enjoy a novel I just read by Lionel Shriver called Should We Stay or Should We Go. It seems to relate. And I'm so happy you've moved to Substack. I was just on Facebook, where I go periodically to get the spam off my page...I think about deleting my FB pages altogether. It's a swamp of fake friend requests, hackings, etc. Anyway, I love your departing photo. Enjoy Substack!
Thanks Joan and yes I’m loving the experience of Substack. It reminds me of my early blogging days on Blogger. Simpler times. Looking forward to interacting with you on this medium.
Love this, helpful. Thanks. I used to kind of hate that Krishnamurti quote, and other pronouncements that “nothing matters“. Mostly because you can’t get there from here just hearing it, it can’t be achieved or worked on, or faked. Kind of just a big useless “I am there, you’re not, too bad“. But now I kind of see it as a neutral-but-lovely unhooking, or letting go, that sort of happens on its own. If I’m not mistaken, you’re writing bares this out.
Another Shiv Classic. I would have to draw the line with the line “I don’t mind what happens”, if my daughter was diagnosed with an incurable condition, like cancer, leukaemia or a brain tumour. I would definitely mind about that. Yes in 100 years time (perhaps less), if she did die before me, and then I died, it’d be like it never happened and nobody would know or care, but it would matter to me now and until I die, I could not not mind about it, no matter what rationalisations I come up with.
That example is a classic one the mind will come up with, especially for those of us who have children. But the reality is no one knows how they will respond to such a circumstance (we think we know). I have repeatedly been surprised by the reality of my responses vs. the expectations. None of this is to say we don’t CARE about the people in our lives. “Not minding” has more to do with the resistance we feel towards the actuality of life. We can be sad and grieve but sadness and grief are not resistance. Resistance is the unwillingness to accept one’s reality
Actually you’re right, I remember a long time ago I lost my job in the RAF and my entire identity was tied up in it, I thought my life was going to end when I was discharged, but I woke up the next day as a civilian and felt absolutely nothing, in fact I felt some relief, so yes how I thought I was going to feel was completely wrong. I just moved on.
Great post. I would suspect that many "modern" people would label your insight as a kind of softcore nihilism.. This can be a rough road when it comes to interacting with other folks and even family at times. One of the terms I have made it a point to not say anymore to anyone is "I don't care", which seems to bother people on a deep emotional level as if I am saying, "I don't care about you or what you think", which is by no means the case. Even J. Krishnamurti's quote "I don't mind what happens" can sour for some people. In my limited experience, I very much mind what happens, just as I mind what happens when playing a game. But in the end, I know it is all still a game that will come to an end, and a new one will soon start. So I personally have no sense of futility. For me, so far, part of the joy of life is to immerse myself completely in the game of life, knowing that it is still just a game being both completely focused and absorbed, and at the same time seeing that it is still only play.
Bob - as I mentioned to Karl, I don’t see “not minding” as not having preferences. Being human we surely all have preferences. The not minding is what factors in when those preferences don’t come to fruition. Do we move through life fighting against it because it didn’t give us what we like? Or do we shrug it off?
Hi Ken 👋🏽
I had become aware that I was "anti" all those things, also, Shiv san. Glad to see I am in good company.
Great post! I resonate with that Krishnamurti quote too. I thought there was something wrong with me until I ‘realised’! Ha ha.
Great to have you on Substack too.
Welcome to the club, bro. That's exactly how I experience life. I'm there without really being there, as if I'm at a distance of everything happening, I'm playing my part but I know it's just a show. "an astonishing feeling of neutrality” is a good way to describe it, but as far as I'm concerned the "astonishing" is gone, since I'm totally used to that 'feeling of neutrality', it's not astonishing anymore.
( Regarding the "offside rule" in soccer, it's never the ball that is considered offside, but the player. ;-) )
Yes you’re right about the offside rule. Correction made ;)
I lived in Texas for awhile and a friend of mine went to the Willy Nelson 4th of July picnic concert each year. If you live in Texas, you know July and most of the summer is hellish so I asked him why he chooses to go and put himself through the misery of 98 degrees, 98 percent humidity, rain, mud, overflowing porta-potties and drunks. He was obviously into your zone of expansive experiencing and summed it up as: "Well, sometimes you just gotta break your give-a-shitter."
My buddy Bob enjoyed the music and wasn't going to waste his time judging things beyond his control like the weather and the state of enlightenment of his fellow concert-goers. He was open to the pleasure of the moment and comfortable with giving up his illusions of control. Nothing quite matches the subtlety of a Texas guru.
The melancholy of spirituality ?